The fresh new genealogists all the think it over extreme you to Nicholas’ wife Clementia are provided right here because the, around typical factors, she would not be mentioned. When Susanna at certain after time obtained out to a new guardian, the new partner of the guardian wasn’t stated.
This would indicate that King John spent a bit around and you will the possibility of an amorous liaison that have Clementia is present
Here are some let me reveal an idea advanced by the some eminent genealogists, but it’s fair to say that the latest conclusions try hotly competitive!
This idea leads to a great and you can interested ‘twist’ on the facts out of Joanna, which may interest fans out-of HBD!
On the surface, there is absolutely nothing to strongly recommend any partnership within hostage, Susanna out-of Wales and you may Clementia, spouse away from Nicholas de- Verdun. not, the experience of particular genealogists having foreign hostages, such as young ones, might have been that they were have a tendency to place with family, or no had been offered.
Moving forward to 1236, there can be an admission from the Tewkesbury annals and therefore relates to Joanna’s mother because “Queen Clemencie!” They checks out in part:
Now, we know your mother away from Joanna try named Clementia (Clemence?
In such a case brand new monk try evidently indulging during the gothic legalism. In advance of their unique death, Joanna ended up being legitimised because of the Pope. On such basis as that legitimisation, the latest Tewksbury monk plainly took they up on themselves to raise Joanna’s mother to your standing out of Queen, since if their own mom was King John’s spouse! It is a fact but Homepage not, you to definitely King John and Clementia was in fact never hitched. By the making reference to Joanna’s mom because “Queen” Clementia, the brand new monk which registered Joanna’s passing try showing their high esteem having Joanna, yet not attempting to alter the true factors.
As for the identity regarding Clementia de Verdun, Paget suggests that she is actually the new child regarding Roger de Dauntsey, out-of Wiltshire. One genealogist takes into account it significant one to Clementia hailed away from Wiltshire just like the they have noticed that King John had a powerful accessory to help you one county, it as the domestic from their best allies, the new Longespee, ilies and you will Geoffrey Fitz Peter.
Genealogists found that the name ‘Clementia’ is very unusual one of English noblewomen regarding the several months. In one table out of women’s names which was obtained, there are just a couple of situations of your own name “Clementia” away from a maximum of 1407 ladies in the fresh new test! The reality that individuals named Clementia might be on the Susanna is known as significant.
Therefore! The evidence are effective, but not conclusive, that during the 1228, Susanna, as the a good hostage, got out over the care of her maternal granny, now spouse regarding Nicholas de- Verdun!!
This new Scottish genealogists of your own MacDuffs’ hold one to Susanna ferch Llywelyn was given birth to 1214 into the Gwynnedd, Wales and you may died c. 1259 when you look at the Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland. She hitched Malcolm MacDuff, Earl of Fife inside the 1230 together with several youngsters: Sir Colbran MacDuff, Earl out-of Fife, produced 1245, passed away 1270 and you can MacDuff MacDuff produced 1247.
Definitely, you will find prevent objections to all which supposition! Queen John had of many mistresses and possibly up to eight illegitimate youngsters. Mom off Joanna could have been born circa 1172 and marriageable circa 1184. Joanna herself came into this world circa 1191 (14 yrs old during the time of their own matrimony so you can Llywelyn). Rohese, brand new known genuine child from Nicholas de- Verdun along with his wife Clementia came to be circa 1210-1213. If Clementia try mom out of Joanna, she would come in their own later 30’s, very early 40’s whenever giving birth in order to Rohese! Not hopeless, specific state, however, improbable.